Hello #cleantechers. On today’s Scaling Clean, a discussion with Silvia Ortin Rios. She has worked in the power sector her entire career. Silvia started as a contract trading analyst for TXU Energy in the late 1990s. Over a quarter century later, she is the CEO of RWE Renewables Onshore Wind and PV division. Silvia is the first woman to hold the position.
Our goal on Scaling Clean is to aggregate insights from CEOs, investors and advisors on building and running winning teams at clean economy companies. I am really excited to share this interview with our listeners because Silvia has experience as a key part of #cleantech teams in four countries on both sides of the Atlantic. She is a rich source of culturally-portable management lessons invaluable on the global stage.
Find out more about Tigercomm’s work at the center of the cleantech industry at www.tigercomm.us.
You can listen to our episodes on Anchor, Spotify, Apple Podcasts and iHeart Radio.
Silvia Ortín:
How do I promote this person? You know, what is the next role that this person could take? What are his aspirations? The difficult piece is when you need to, you know, come to a determination that a team member, you know, is not a fit anymore for the team or for the company.
Mike Casey:
And this is Scaling Clean, the podcast for clean economies CEOs, investors, and the people who advise them. I'm your host, Mike Casey. My day job is running Tigercomm, a firm that counsels companies that are helping move the US economy onto a more sustainable footing. I get to meet the people who are succeeding at building, funding or advising the most successful companies in your sectors. So on each show, we try to bring you usable insights from these leaders so you can apply them to the business of running your business.
Hello, cleantechers. Our guest today is Silvia Ortín. She has worked in the power sector for her entire career. Silvia started as a contract trading analyst for TXU Energy in the late 1990s, but over a quarter century, she rose to become the CEO of RWE Renewables, onshore wind, and PV division. She's the first woman to hold that position. As our listeners know, our goal with Scaling Clean interviews is to glean insights from CEOs, investors, and advisors on building and running winning teams at clean economy companies. And I'm really excited about talking with Silvia because she's been a part of or managed teams in four countries on both sides of the Atlantic. And I think we're gonna find her a rich source of culturally portable management lessons. Silvia, welcome to Scaling Clean.
Silvia Ortín:
Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me.
Mike Casey:
Let's start with your background. How would you summarize your career as a corporate leader?
Silvia Ortín:
Very long to start with. I started very young in this industry, a little bit by coincidence cause this was not my primary choice. I wanted to be a language teacher, but things didn't go my way. So I tried as a temporary thing to join an electricity company in the town I was living in at the time in the UK with my today husband. And I thought I'll give it a go. And I never thought that I would be developing a career of 25 years now in this industry alone. I started in the retail business. Then I moved into trading, and eventually, a few years later, I encountered the world of renewable energy, which was very, very incipient at the time. There were very few installations of renewable energy, mostly onshore wind. And I thought it was something that was gonna give me purpose. We were doing something for the environment. We were doing something new, fresh, looking into future generations that could enjoy a world, that hopefully we're gonna live in a world better than the one we founded. And that was it. It was almost love at first sight. And I just haven't moved from this industry ever since.
Mike Casey:
Are there things in your upbringing that set you up for a path that puts you into the CEO's chair today?
Silvia Ortín:
That's a very interesting question. I never thought of it like that. You know, I come from a very normal family. My mom stayed at home. She was not somebody that I could use as a role model for the work environment. But I've always been surrounded by very powerful women, women that had a say, even though they might not be the providers in their households, and had very strong views of the world. And one thing I always took for granted, given the upbringing I got, is that my voice was to be heard - full stop. I mean, regardless of my background, my gender, I had something to say and the world was there to hear it. And I think that that has held me to be, in a way, left self-aware in terms of what I wanna say, it is as right as anybody else's. And I think that kind of drive or vision of the world has helped me to move in this environment, in an upwards manner, so to say.
Mike Casey:
Tell me about the first time you were somebody's boss. What mistakes can you see now that you made back then? And were there some lessons that you carried forward into the years that followed?
Silvia Ortín:
Yeah, I do remember very well that I was very young and the team I was leading at the time, they were all older than me. They had more years of experience and expertise, and I felt that I had to know as much as them in order to lead the team. And that's a mistake I've realized in the many years I've been leading teams, that that's not the case. You don't need to know more, or even the same as the individual members of your team. I mean you have to let them have their space, their area of expertise, to shine in their area of knowledge. And basically, I learned that my job was not to tell them how to do things, but to help them understand what was the common goal and how to work together to achieve it. And second, as much important, to extract the best of people, right? To make sure that people could shine, that they had their space, that they have their voice, and that they could really develop themselves into a better version of themselves as part of a team. And, as I said, delivering a common goal together.
Mike Casey:
If you had to describe your leadership style now, how would you do that?
Silvia Ortín:
To be honest, I don't think I have one style. I think if I would describe my studies that I can accommodate to the environment and I can accommodate to the different people's personalities, and I can accommodate to the different goals of what we are pursuing at different times. So probably that would be the definition that I am versatile in that respect. I think my background of having worked in so many countries in different languages with people with very different backgrounds, has helped me to become this versatile leader if you want to accommodate to the different needs of the environment and of the teams.
Mike Casey:
Silvia, who were your most influential mentors, and what did you learn from them?
Silvia Ortín:
I had a few, about 20 years of career I had a lot of mentors and a lot of bosses that I could really aspire and have some sort of inspiration of how to act and how to lead and how to develop myself, where were my development areas so I could get better. I also had some, let's say, bosses that I knew that I didn't wanna be like them. So you learn a little bit from the good and from the bad and choose, how you wanna be perceived and what exactly you should not do. That affected me in some ways, seeing other people behaving in certain manners.
I mean, it would be very difficult to pick one. I'm very thankful for having worked with people and for people that could see something in me. They gave me the opportunity, they gave me the space for growth, feedback, both good and bad. Because sometimes you also need to hear the things that you're not doing so well, so you can work on them. And I'm, again, very lucky to have had people that were very honest with me and very generous as well. I’ve been very lucky in my career, I must say.
Mike Casey:
Looking back, do you think you learned more from the bad bosses or from the good bosses?
Silvia Ortín:
I think I've learned more from the good ones, but I learned a lesson or two from the not-so-good ones. Let me put it like that.
Mike Casey:
Are there ways in which leading clean economy companies are different than leading companies in more mature sectors? And if so, what are those differences?
Silvia Ortín:
I think one aspect that really differentiates the industry we work in, the clean energy, sustainability. As I said before, working to leave a better world than the one we founded, is that people work with a purpose. They know what they're doing. They do what they want to do, they want to spend their lives working for something that is bigger than themselves, and therefore there are a lot of companies that do what we do. So we really need to offer the people to fulfill their purpose. That they feel that they are fulfilling their aspirations and their vision of how they want to spend their life in the working environment. I think that makes us very special because there is a lot of passion in what we do, and we need to be sure when you lead a team like that, that you also share that passion and that passion is contagious, that everybody shares that vision. I think that's a very special feature of the people that work in renewable and clean energies in general.
Mike Casey:
Does that make leading a company in a clean economy easier or harder, given the passions involved and the sense of mission? I imagine the sense of mission is an upside, it's an asset. I imagine that passion sometimes makes it harder to make just a clean business decision but tell me about that.
Silvia Ortín:
For me, personally, makes it easier because I share that passion. So I feel very much like the rest of the team in that respect. So it feels easy because I know what people are thinking, how they're looking at things because I have that same vision and that same purpose in what we do. I find it easier. And I love the environment. I love to work with people that feel so strongly about what we are doing and that there is something more than just a job, right? And that's how I feel it. For me, it's more than a job. It's almost a lifestyle. And you take that to your personal environment as well. And it's great to see that it's not something you just do for a salary, but it's something you bring home. You can pass it on to your children. The children can feel very proud of what their mom does. And that for me is very, very important. I see that same pride in the team I work with.
Mike Casey:
You quit your job tomorrow and you become a professor teaching advanced university students in the business school. And your first lecture is going to be describing the role of the effective CEO. What are you gonna tell your students?
Silvia Ortín:
Well, I think I'm gonna tell them what I told you before, that they don't need to know everything. They need to be aware that they have experts and that they should let them grow, they should let them shine. And that the purpose of a great CEO in my view, is to understand the team, to understand the dynamics, to understand how to extract the best capabilities of the people they're working with. For me, this is what I enjoy doing as well. And just be an inspirational leader that people want to follow without the need of having to tell people what to do and how to do it, but more creating that vision that people can follow and develop themselves while delivering on it.
Mike Casey:
So I’ve noticed you're not offering things like building the right team and paying attention to the finances, and there are other things you led with giving your team space and sharing that vision as a number one role. Are there other things on the list that you would give to your students in that hypothetical business class?
Silvia Ortín:
Sure. I mean I always say that you are as good as the people you are surrounded with, right? And of course, you need to pay attention to the team. One thing I very much advocate for is to create as a diverse team as you can. And when I say diverse, I don't not only mean in terms of gender and or background, but also ways of thinking. You always need a diverse team in the sense of how people think, how people act, and how people deliver because it is in the balance that you find the best solutions. And sometimes some leaders tend to surround themselves with people like them, but then you all go in the same direction and sometimes you might fall down the cliff.
And having a diverse team in the wider sense of the word, I think, brings a lot of balancing and a lot of discussions to reach the best solutions, and also to learn from each other. That's a very rich environment to work on. I mean, financing, some things like that, of course, goes for granted because this is the minimum that I see to deliver on the numbers, but I think the people are the most difficult piece to get right. And that's why I make a lot of emphasis on the leading of the teams, on the building of the teams, on the development and the growth of the the individual members of the team. I think for me, it's a super important piece of being a leader.
Mike Casey:
Are there ways you found that differ in how to effectively manage teams in the US versus teams in Europe? And acknowledging that both places are fairly diverse particularly Europe. Are there differences that you've noticed in company dynamics?
Silvia Ortín:
I've worked mostly for the same company for many years. So there is always a common culture, of course, every country and almost every area of the company has got its own cultural aspects, right? But we share a common culture and as I said before, a common purpose, right? That is the clean energy world, the carbonization, et cetera. So those things are very present, regardless of the geography you're in. Of course, there are differences between Europe and America, but not as many. I think that there are more common things, than differences. And as I said, I think that the common denominator is the purpose and the passion, and that's something that is shared across the ocean. On the teams I have led on both sides of the Atlantic that comes very, very strongly. And it makes the teams very similar in terms of moving with that purpose of what we do.
Mike Casey:
When you've taken over the leadership of a team or a division or an entire company, what did you learn about selecting the right team, who to keep, and who to let go? I've heard that among the most difficult things to do in building and running teams, is inheriting an existing team and figuring out who to keep and who to change out.
Silvia Ortín:
Especially on the who not to keep. I mean, who to keep is easy in the sense that's something you don't think of, right? You don't think, I'm gonna keep this person? The projects move on, the deliveries move on. And that's the team you count on. That's not something that pops into your mind - how do I promote this person? What is the next role that this person could take? What are his aspirations? The difficult piece is when you need to come to a determination that a team member is not a fit anymore for the team or for the company. Of course, before you get to that point, you try lots of things, right?
I mean, first, is this the right job for this person, is this the right level of responsibility? But coming to that determination is the hardest one. Cause you know that you are affecting somebody's life. So, it's a very careful decision, but sometimes very necessary, or most times very necessary because it's disrupting the team or disrupting the dynamics, or disrupting the delivery. That's something nobody likes doing. And it's one of the things that keep me awake at night when the decisions like this need to happen.
Mike Casey:
Are there particular things that you are looking for in an employee's performance? When you come in, you've taken over a team, say there are 10 people, 6, 7, 8 of them are clearly people that you wanna keep around, okay, box checked, the remaining two or three, you have a question mark over them. What is Silvia looking for in order to help her make a decision to keep that person or to let them go?
Silvia Ortín:
It depends very much on the team we are talking about. If you need to have a team that is very collaborative, that needs to be very collaborative because they need input from a lot of people in order to deliver a product. That's one of the most important things. How open are people to collaboration? How do they work in teams? Are they capable of having that flexibility that sometimes comes with not having a single person responsible for something, but a team that needs to deliver and move it together? Collaboration for me is key. And in the industry I'm leading, we all need to collaborate because it's like building a puzzle at the end of the day.:
And until the last piece is not there, you don't have the product that you want to deliver. So in that respect, of course, capability and the necessary expertise that you need from people are very important. But that collaborative aspect, cooperation, being able to share, being able to ask, that's super important in my view. And if a team member doesn't have that kind of characteristic, it's something that we need to work very seriously on to make it as best as possible. And if not, this is one of the determinations that need to be taken, is this the right person for this kind of environment? Maybe they’re better suited to do something a little bit more independent, work more individually than a collaborative and cooperative environment.
Mike Casey:
Hiring. It's always said that it is one of the most challenging parts of leading companies. What have you learned about hiring?
Silvia Ortín:
Hiring is at the moment one of the most difficult things that we have in the clean energy industry. There is a big demand for talent and a shortage of it. One thing I really believe it’s very important is that we start sourcing directly from universities to show the students while they are at university, what is the beauty and the opportunities that the clean energy environment offers. I mean, hiring is very difficult because you don't have a lot of time to get to know the person. So sometimes you need to trust your instincts to feel that this is the person that would fit that role well.
I always like to have another person with me in the room so I can exchange views afterward. But I mean, instinct is a big thing cause everybody comes with great CVs, right? But that's not what makes the x factor sometimes on what makes a person fit well in the whole of the team you're trying to fulfill, right? The experience is also a big piece. I mean, the more interviews you do, the more interactions you have with candidates, it becomes a little bit clearer of what you're looking for and how people fit in that space.
Mike Casey:
Do you have a few go-to interview questions that you almost always ask?
Silvia Ortín:
I always ask people what are their areas of development. Cause everybody has got a very well-prepared list of strengths and capabilities and successes, et cetera. But with that question, if the answer is honest, you can tell most times, it becomes obvious what is the level of self-awareness of a person, which is very important to have in a job and especially in a dynamic environment as we have in the clean energy. And we would be very surprised at what some people come up with. You know, they always turn some of that development into positives, which is very telling. But that's a question I always have on my list of questions.
Mike Casey:
When it comes to firing somebody. What's the guidance you would offer younger CEOs on how to do that?
Silvia Ortín:
As I said before, that's one of the most difficult parts of the job. I mean, my advice would be to be very honest and be well-prepared. Be well prepared on how to explain to the person the reasons why he or she is not fit for that role anymore. Offer examples, clear examples. Don't talk about generics because the generics never work well. Provide examples of things that triggered the decision. Honesty, examples, and advice on how to try to learn from those mistakes in the future.
Mike Casey:
What's the most important advice you would give to younger CEOs of clean economy companies beyond letting go of the idea you need to know everything? Are there additional tips you would give? And would that advice be different for young female CEOs?
Silvia Ortín:
My first advice is that they have to enjoy the role. It's a little bit lonely sometimes. Cause there are some decisions that you need to take on your own, but you need to enjoy what you do because that makes those decisions or those moments of reflection easier to carry. Again I said it before, surround yourself with people you trust, people that make you better, that you can also learn from. You don't need to know everything, but you can learn a lot from the team that you are surrounded with. And for females, don't think you are a different type of person, just because you're a female, I mean, we are capable of doing everything. If you can see it, you can be it.
The world is still very short of female CEOs. If you look around, you go to venues, you go to forums, and there is always a small percentage, but it is growing. I would hope that I could be a little bit of a showcase for those female leaders that are having their eyes on a CEO position and don't know if they can make it there. With hard work, a good team, good decisions, thought-through decisions, those things can be achieved, of course.
Mike Casey:
As you look back on your career, do you think a successful company is more reliant on the things it chooses not to do or the things it chooses to do?
Silvia Ortín:
I think it's a balance. I always say in our environment, clean energy, we work very much on delivering new projects, and I always tell my team and especially the development team, a project that is stopped early - it's money that we can use to bring good projects forward. So sometimes yes, you need to focus very, very closely on the target and not try to bring too many things at the same time, because otherwise, it can get a little bit diluted, the value that you can bring forward. I think it's a balance. Of course, you need to move a lot of things forward in order to make one happen. But a bad project that is stopped early is worth a lot more than probably the ones that you take forward and you never be able to deliver eventually.
Mike Casey:
My last question is, are you a climate optimist or climate pessimist, and why?
Silvia Ortín:
Optimist. Totally. Otherwise, I couldn't keep doing what I'm doing. I think we are turning the world slowly, but it's going to happen. I mean there is no way around it. There is no way around it. I'm a climate optimist. I mean, I see the new generations that have got it so much clearer than even my generation that we've been working on this for all these years. We only have one planet. We need to look after it. And I think that there is a lot of positive movement. Of course, it's still a lot of unwillingness from some sectors to let go. But I'm hundred percent positive that we are taking the right steps forward. The US has just passed the Inflation Reduction Act which has got a very important package for the promotion of clean energy, it is probably the best regulatory package that our government has put together in the world.
And as I said before, I've worked in many countries. It provides sustainability, provides long-term plans. We can take decisions for the long term. And I think the US is the number one country in the world. And when a country like the US states this kind of policy forward, the world is looking and the world will keep acting in that same manner. Unfortunately, the Ukraine War now has put a little bit of a spin on things. But in a way, this going to also turn European countries to be even more prone to rely on renewable energies and less fossil fuels. And that definitely helps our climate to reduce carbon emissions, damaging our environment so much.
Mike Casey:
Well, Silvia Ortín, this has been a wonderful discussion. It's been an honor to speak with you. I've wanted you on the show since we started this thing, and I'm just grateful for the work you do and for your time spent looking back and giving us some lessons because there's a lot of them here. And I think this is gonna be an episode that a lot of people will listen to. So please accept my thanks for coming to the show.
Silvia Ortín:
Thank you! Thank you so much for the opportunity. Thank you!
Mike Casey:
Hey, our thanks to Silvia Ortín, the Chief Executive Officer of RWE Renewables Americas for her time today. This is Scaling Clean, a production of Tigercomm. And I'm Mike Casey. Thanks for joining us. You can subscribe to our show free anywhere you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please leave us a rating and a review. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks for listening!