Episode 12: Realizing vs Maintaining Potential

Hello, #cleantechers. Ever heard the joke about the engineer who walked into a podcast interview and turned out to be a fountain of wisdom and soundbites? Well, our guest today is just that… except he’s no joke.   

Introduction

Leadership is not about issuing instructions, that is a portion of it. It is about creating a common vision, a common goal on the horizon that everybody can align around. Everybody's got strengths and weaknesses and that's the great thing because if you put that puzzle piece of capabilities, hopes, fears, ambitions, together the right way, suddenly you have a highly impactful team.

Mike Casey:

And this is Scaling Clean, the podcast for clean economy CEOs, investors, and the people who advise them, I'm your host Mike Casey. My day job is running Tigercomm, a firm that councils companies that are helping move the US economy onto a more sustainable footing. I get to meet the people who are succeeding at building, funding, or advising the most successful companies in your sectors. So each show we try to bring you usable insights from these leaders, so you can apply them to the business of running your business.

Hey, cleantechers. Have you ever heard the joke about the engineer who walked into a podcast interview and turned out to be a fountain of wisdom and sound bites? Well, our guest today is just that, except he's no joke. South African native Klaus Nussgruber leads Utility Global, the net zero hydrogen company based in Houston. And Klaus spent his 31-year career working in and leading corporate initiatives focused on hydrogen and other rare industrial gases. To me, Klaus represents the influx of talent that's coming into cleantech from other parts of the economy. These new people are diversifying the available expertise and perspective within the sector and we're better for it. And you're gonna be better for listening to Klaus, welcome to the show. Let's get right into it. How would you summarize your career trajectory to date?

Mentors and Inspirations

Claus Nussgruber:

My career trajectory to date was that I've always enjoyed being in a creative space followed by having to execute and deliver this creation and development. The techno-commercial interface is really something I've found my home in of bringing technologies and technical solutions to market and creating a real business out of it. I think from a leadership perspective, I've always been a leader within teams, but it's really only over the last 5 to 10 years that I've become a leader of teams. And this has begun to be incredibly rewarding for me.

Mike Casey:

Your mentors, we were talking before we started recording and I thought your answers were incredibly interesting. Tell me about your mentors.

Claus Nussgruber:

So I always seek out environments where I can learn, otherwise, I get bored. So I've had a ton of mentors along the way. They may or may not have known it, but I am always looking for colleagues and bosses who teach me something on my journey. Maybe more specifically - definitely my parents, because what one shouldn't forget is they're mentoring teachers, the value system, what's important in life, how to deliver, how to execute, how to be disciplined, and how to put the effort in to put us in a better place as their children and what we need to do to put our children into a better place. And then lastly, calling out a specific person that most folks should know is Nelson Mandela. Having grown up in South Africa has really been quite impactful on my life because he's sort of been this once-in-a-generation leader who always kept sight of the big picture and the big goal despite the incredible adversity he was facing and united a very divided country in a short number of years.

Nelson Mandela's Impact and Lessons Learned

Mike Casey:

So let me follow up on the Mandela question. That's such an interesting answer. Is there a specific lesson you gleaned from his role modeling that you applied last week, last month or last year? Just a specific thing where you really, in retrospect, drew from that role model that he provided.

Claus Nussgruber:

Oh, constantly. All the time. And there is always some situation that upsets you. There are always actions, but other people, whether intended or not, that are frustrating, that you feel counterproductive and it is really easy to get upset at them. Really easy. 

Yeah, in the big down then that's okay, but it's not helpful. It's better to walk away, get a cup of coffee and say, what are we trying to achieve here? And when you then have the conversations with everybody how do we ensure that we're focused on the goal, is just incredibly powerful and it tends to eradicate a lot of these frustrating situations very, very quickly.

Shifting Perspective and Understanding Others

Mike Casey:

So what I hear you saying is by shifting, by giving yourself a break, allowing to reset, so you have a different perspective on what you perceive to be irritating behavior from a colleague, an employee, et cetera, it allows you to kind of level set and see them differently, accurate?

Claus Nussgruber:

Absolutely. It's both about understanding the other side because everybody's got a perspective that they believe is legitimate. And so step one is trying to understand all the perspectives in the dynamic that you've got going on. And then once you think you've got that, the solution is more self-evident than if you just try and look at it from your perspective. And that also makes people feel included, that you care about them and they are more amenable to coming up with something that is more aligned and agreeable to everybody.

Mike Casey:

If you could just summarize, how have you changed your leadership style over the years? You told me earlier that the first time you were someone's boss in high school, which I thought was very courageous of you to go back that far in your life and evaluate your current self against your high school self. I wouldn't do that cause I would be afraid to look, but if you just had to summarize two or three big shifts that you have made over the years and the trial and error of managing other people, how would you summarize those?

Evolving Leadership Style Over Time

Claus Nussgruber:

Yeah, so the biggest shift is that leadership is not about issuing instructions, that is a portion of it. It is about creating a common vision, a common goal on the horizon that everybody can align around. That's step number one. Then step number two is really learning. How do you organize around that? Everybody's got strengths and weaknesses and that's the great thing because if you put that puzzle piece of capabilities, hopes, fears, ambitions together the right way, suddenly you have a highly impactful team. And then the third thing that's really important is you have blind spots. Everybody has blind spots. Except that get feedback, have the courage to get the feedback. There are different routes for that. It doesn't matter how you do it, but get feedback.

Attraction to the Clean Economy and Sense of Purpose

Mike Casey:

That's so well said. Leadership is not about issuing instructions. I love that. I'm gonna definitely use that. That's good. All right. What drew you to what we broadly term a clean economy? I think here in the United States we started off with renewable energy. And now it's kind of broadened out to other sectors of the economy and for lack of a better term clean economy. But what drew you to the cleaner stuff?

Claus Nussgruber:

Oh, that's a great question because number one - it just provides an incredible sense of purpose. And, it's not just me, it's everybody around me. If you can apply your energies to improving a lot of humanity and at the same time build a career and earn a salary and raise a family and do all those things, I mean, how great is that? So that's definitely one item. This is also the time in history when engineers and our fraternity of engineers needs to solve a problem for humanity. And we can, and to some extent, I'm almost thinking of it as the Hippocratic oath for engineers to get global warming under control.

Leading in a Disruptive and Fast-Paced Clean Economy Environment

Mike Casey:

The Hippocratic oath for engineers. Klaus, I know you're not from the US but you are producing some serious sound bites in this interview and we're gonna have a hard time picking the best ones. That's really good. In your experience, is leading a clean economy company different than leading a company in a more mature sector? And if so, how is it different? And I'm talking just to be clear, not just from the sense of mission, I share that, but I think also just in your experience of being a leader of your current company, how do you think that compares? If you had a twin sibling who was running a construction company or anything in a more mature sector and you two compared day-to-day experiences, how would those experiences significantly differ?

Claus Nussgruber:

In the first instance, my brother would already drive a Mercedes and I'm still hoping to drive a Mercedes Okay. And that is very instrumental. It's a lot about ambition and the potential and realizing the potential rather than about maintaining the potential you've established. So yes, the short answer is yes,  it is very, very different. It is incredibly fast and you're basically always laying track while you're racing down it. And every day you have the feeling your train's gonna move a little bit faster than you can lay track. Then once again, the space, of course, that it's meaningful for humanity, but if we stick with the small company startup theme it's disruptive. And especially in the renewable cleantech space, there is so much disruption going on that even mature companies need to find their role in this new world. And that just gives an incredible opportunity for new companies to come about and do things differently and better and not quite knowing what that answer is. There is no recipe for it. That makes it so exciting, but that also requires you to be incredibly confident about where you're going.

Key Responsibilities of Clean Economy CEOs

Mike Casey:

It's great. I'll tell you, anybody, who complains about engineers being boring needs to meet you.

Claus Nussgruber:

My challenge is that I'm an engineer.

Mike Casey:

Alright. Let's say you quit your job tomorrow and become a lecturer at an MBA program here in the US, your first class is explaining the role of the clean economy CEO. How would you describe to your students what an effective clean economy CEO does? What are the main jobs they have?

Claus Nussgruber:

So I think the first job for a CEO is to be the guiding light. What's the vision? Where are we trying to go? If you can't do that, you're just a manager, okay? But you need to create the vision and the enthusiasm around it. The second thing you need to do is you need to be the anchor that everybody trusts. When things go bad, you need to be the calmest person in the room. When things go really well, you need to be the calmest person in the room because everybody watches you. Is the guy nervous? Is he uncertain? And you need to come across as just this very steady, calm, and collected person who knows how to navigate this independent of what might be coming at us. The third thing is you typically start off with a bunch of MacGyver-like innovators who are insanely smart and have incredible ideas, but you need to progressively transition that to a robust company that can execute, that is safe, that can contract, that can deliver, and it is getting that transition right, and the cultural change that is key for the CEO.

Advice for Aspiring Clean Economy Leaders

Then maybe rounding that question out, young companies don't have a brand. So as the new CEO, you bring your brand and you need to leverage your brand into building a brand for the company.

Mike Casey:

At the end of that course, that hypothetical course we talked about, one of your students comes up to you and says, “Hey, thanks, great course. My ambition is within 15-20 years I wanna have a job like yours. What advice do you have for me at this just starting my career off?” What advice would you give?

Claus Nussgruber:

Number one, figure out what you love to do and do that. Be passionate, because if that doesn't work or harmonize, you're not going to be good. That is fundamental to everything you do, but it is especially true if you want to be the leader of people. The second thing is, doesn't matter where you are in your career, you need to learn, learn, learn, learn, and recognize that a great idea is only the start, the hardcore execution matters. So you always need a plan, how do I get this idea into the field where somebody buys it, somebody uses it, somebody pays me money for it. If you cannot answer that question, the idea might not be ready yet. And then the third thing is always to make sure you come across as very clear in where you want to go and as credible that's important for customers, that's important for investors and that's important for employees because they cannot trust a company that doesn't really exist yet, but they can trust you. And once you got that trust, you can build something

Firing, Hiring, and Supporting the Right People

Mike Casey:

Hiring. It's often cited by our guests as one of the hardest things to do. What have you learned about hiring, particularly at the leadership team level?

Claus Nussgruber:

Yeah, that's a great leader and even to a larger subject because it's all about people. If you think it's about valve switches, computers, and those kinds of things, not so much. It's all about people. And so hiring is probably the most critical element in that you need to get the right people. Take your time, get professional headhunters to help you with that. And don't settle early if you anyhow can, might not always be possible, but get the right people. Then you have the challenge that in an early-stage company to get top talent is really tough because of the perceived risk that the company and the journey still has. So you need to use your own brand, your own vision, and your own enthusiasm to convince people that this is a journey worth joining. Cause in the end, they don't follow the company, they follow you.

And then the third thing is once you've hired them, just lean in on supporting them. Very early on here at Utility Global, I hired a coach who's integrated with the entire team in the company. And the job every single day is to help individuals and teams thrive. And without this, we would've been in a world of hurt, we would've attrition, we would have turnover. But this has really been transformative by recognizing that once you got the people you need somebody who helps you to focus on them and make sure you keep everything in great alignment.

Mike Casey:

What a great idea. That's the first time I've ever heard that plenty of people use coaches, but it's the first time I've heard someone embedded coach for all the staff. That's really impressive.

Claus Nussgruber:

Absolutely. I happen to have a relationship there that just integrated super well. They are trusted, they're part of the fabric of the organization, and their job is people and company health.

Mike Casey:

Talking about firing. What advice do you have on how to fire? 

Claus Nussgruber:

When an employee doesn't perform, you've got a couple of options. The one is just to extend the runway until you might not need the function anymore. Number two is to help them transform and improve. And it's really only once those two don't work that you should consider firing. Firing should be your last option because you spent a lot of effort, time, and money on that person. So if you do need to fire, make sure it's clean, make sure you both legally clean, but also sort of morally clean, that you have a clear narrative, a clear message on why you're doing it. What I've noticed, when I've had to let people go throughout my career, is if you give them a credible explanation, they almost appreciate the conversation they had with you. And that takes practice. You can't study that in a book, that takes practice.

The CEO's Performance in an Early-Stage Company

Mike Casey:

Think about your own performance. I know that as a CEO, how you show up to work every day is very important. A question we've begun to ask recently of guests is what do they do? Habits, practices, pampering themselves. Something that sort of keeps. What's the equivalent of an ice bath for an athlete? Are there things that Klaus does to keep Klaus's performance at its peak when he's at the job, but these are things he does outside of work, or perhaps they're during work hours, what do you do to make your performance as consistently high as possible?

Claus Nussgruber:

No, that's a really good question. Step number one is recognizing that you can't go full speed all the time. An early-stage company is always busy. There's always stuff to do and you're always late for everything and you don't have enough people.

Mike Casey:

Amen! Oh my gosh! That's gonna be the soundbite.

Claus Nussgruber:

So, the common mistake to which I'm not immune is you just go, go, go, go and then wonder why you burnt out. Hire people, hire a team, and make sure you get the help that you need within the company, outside the company you have to keep the self-discipline that it is okay to have private time, whether it is a lunch break, whether it is a Sunday, whether it's a week at the beach with a family. And what I've found is the more you're disciplined around that, the more creative and energetic I'm actually during the times I am at work. Okay, a personal hobby of mine. My wife and I love going to the opera. You have to go somewhere, the room goes dark cell phones are off, and you're basically pulled into another world for three to four hours. And I find that just incredibly relaxing. When you come back out, life can happen again, but while you're in there, your brain goes to a different place.

The Legacy of a Clean Economy CEO

Mike Casey:

Where do you want your legacy to be as a CEO of Utility Global?

Claus Nussgruber:

I think we're on a really good path to writing industrial history here. We have a disruptive transformative technology that we're driving to market that will make a significant impact on the speed and affordability of the energy transition. So it is for myself and everybody else to be able to say, we wrote a piece of industrial history. Obviously, you want to leave a vibrant company behind that's revered for its products, its services, and its people, not to forget the people, and to have shown others that you can change the world. Okay, you can start from little beginnings and you can change the world.

Mike Casey:

Are you a climate optimist or are you a climate pessimist and why?

Claus Nussgruber:

I would say I am an optimist and it's not just related to climate, with innovation such as the one we have at Utility Global, you cannot help but being an optimist. Okay, absolutely, we can solve this. And here I fundamentally believe in humanity's drive to survive. And throughout the course of history, we have built wealth, we've built health, we've built for sufficient food and water supplies. And so I have absolutely no doubt that we can innovate and execute the solutions that are required here. So for me working daily to solve humanity's most vexing problems to some extent is just incredibly rewarding and makes it wonderful to be an engineer.

Mike Casey:

Klaus, I can't tell you how fun this has been. You're a soundbite factory and a really good one. And it's just great. And I say that as a guy who's worked crafting soundbites for 37 years and I wouldn't be able to craft many of them for you, cause you already got it down, it's really good. But this is really, really great stuff. Thank you so much for doing this. Thanks for coming on, sharing your wisdom. I'd certainly wanna work for you. So it's good stuff.

Claus Nussgruber:

Appreciate your time, Mike, as well, just to reflect this in another direction as well.